4. Submissions on Behalf of Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice Cymru by Mr Puar

Mr Puar: My Lady, I appear on behalf of the team representing the interests of Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice Cymru or CBFJ Cymru.

Your Ladyship has already received our written submissions, and there is only one narrow point of particular importance to CBFJ Cymru which I seek to develop orally before you today, namely the Rule 9 requests which are set out at paragraphs 7 to 13 in our written document.

CBFJ Cymru are a group who represent a broad spectrum of families in Wales who have lost a loved one or, in many cases, loved ones to Covid-19. They’re a group that formed in mid-July of 2021, and they have worked tirelessly as a group dedicated to campaigning and supporting those families by, amongst other things, scrutinising the decision process in Wales.

One of their primary objectives is to understand why certain decisions were made in Wales, and why and how those decisions differed between the home nations.

We recognise the Inquiry’s commitment and dedication to date in seeking evidence from those jurisdictions, to compare the contrasting approaches and thus learn lessons for facing any future pandemic. However, it is submitted that, in seeking to compare the contrasting approaches, it is critical to ensure that the type and quality of evidence sought from each of the home nations are truly comparable.

We note from the CTI’s note that since the first preliminary hearing back in September 2023 over 120 Rule 9 requests have been made for witness statements and associated documents, and those requests, as we understand it, extended to the Office of the Chief Medical Officer and the chief medical officers of each of the devolved nations. However, we note that the Welsh Chief Medical Officer doesn’t appear to have answered that request. It’s understood that the proposal is that the Welsh Government corporate witness will provide corporate evidence on behalf of the CMO department, but it is submitted that if that is the case, that this would be an inadequate way to deal with such evidence and would perhaps make contrasting the approaches taken by the home nations more difficult to understand.

In particular, we make the following observations: that although the CMO for Wales is a member of staff at the Welsh Government designated by Welsh ministers, he holds a unique position in that he holds a high degree of independence from the concerns of the government. He is free to provide advice without regard to government policy or direction, and the CMO reports are published without being vetted by special advisers or clearance by ministers. Consequently, if the Welsh Government were to give evidence on behalf of the CMO for Wales, we say that there’s a possibility at least that this independence may become questioned.

Although it’s understood that a Rule 9 request has been made of the Deputy CMO, and that she may very well have had a particular interest or role in the vaccination roll-out in Wales, we note that that appointment only took place in April of 2021, some four months after the first Covid-19 vaccine was issued in the UK outside of clinical trials.

In contrast, the CMO for Wales has been in post since 2016, has had a significant role in the decision-making process regarding the roll-out for vaccines in Wales, and indeed made recommendations in respect of the vaccination programme in his report finished in January 2021, which of course pre-dates the appointment of the Deputy CMO.

Further –

Lady Hallett: I thought this matter had been resolved, Mr Keith.

Mr Keith: It had been resolved. We had internally decided, subject to your approval, that we would accede to my learned friend’s request to send a Rule 9 directly to the Welsh CMO, but I didn’t in fact address that point in the course of my oral submissions this morning, and my learned friend wouldn’t have known that, of course.

So can I say, and I don’t wish to cut him short, of course, that the submissions were, in our opinion, well made. We were told that the best person to deal with the issues we wanted to be raised with the Office of the Chief Medical Officer in Wales was in fact the Deputy CMO for Covid-19 vaccines. However – and I should say that the draft responses have been very thorough from the Welsh Government and from the DCMO, but in light of the issues which were made in writing we had already decided to send one specifically to the Welsh CMO nevertheless, and that’s in hand.

Lady Hallett: Sorry to cut across you, Mr Puar, but you were knocking at an open door.

Mr Puar: Very well, my Lady, then I can simply sit down.

Lady Hallett: Thank you very much for your help.

Mr Puar: Thank you.

Lady Hallett: Right, who is next?

Mr McCaffery.